Comments on: IE vs Firefox arguments http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2004/ie-vs-firefox-arguments/ Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:04:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Jo http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2004/ie-vs-firefox-arguments/#comment-9 Jo Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:35:14 +0000 http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2004/ie-vs-firefox-arguments/#comment-9 I can't remember who's blog it was that I was trying to access which set off this rant. But it actually blocked me from viewing it entirely, by detecting that I was using Internet Explorer, and displaying some message about getting a new browser. I have since moved to using Firefox, because I found a feature that I actually find useful: tabbed browsing, with the tabs at the bottom. It's like having a second task bar, and it keeps me much more organised. There's still things I dislike, but at least people have stopped nagging me about it ;) I can’t remember who’s blog it was that I was trying to access which set off this rant. But it actually blocked me from viewing it entirely, by detecting that I was using Internet Explorer, and displaying some message about getting a new browser.
I have since moved to using Firefox, because I found a feature that I actually find useful: tabbed browsing, with the tabs at the bottom. It’s like having a second task bar, and it keeps me much more organised.
There’s still things I dislike, but at least people have stopped nagging me about it ;)

]]> By: Ben http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2004/ie-vs-firefox-arguments/#comment-8 Ben Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:26:48 +0000 http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2004/ie-vs-firefox-arguments/#comment-8 The fundamental problem with all pieces of ‘community software’ (of which Firefox is not, but which the bad seeds of the Firefox community think it is) is there there are evangelists, and there are nut cases. It‘s a crying shame, because as you say, they do Firefox a grand dis-service with their blunt hypocrisy. The point of W3C standards is to make the web accessible to all. While IE is something of a frustrating obstacle toward Web Utopia for designers/developers, the standards advocated should allow for pages to display perfectly adequetly in IE. We can’t do much about IE‘s actual, bonefide bugs (and there are plenty), but the pretence that IE is the only piece of software to ever be bug riddled is obviously wrong. It’s a sad state of affairs when people become so self-important that they start deliberately breaking pages in IE. Letting them ‘degrade’ (e.g., where an effect isn‘t supported in IE and so just doesn’t show up, but the content remains) is how the standard is supposed to work, by design and will allow the web to keep on growing smoothly, without the stop-start upgrade style that you might associate with desktop software or games. Those that block out IE, or deliberately leave it ‘broken’ are a dangerously vocal minority as far as Firefox goes. Although the development is fairly closed, the promotion is reliant on the community and it could be reaped or wrecked by them (or "us"). Whether Mozilla.org could every stand up and tell those anti-social types that they were unwanted is debatable, but anyone who believes that someone will want to view their personal website enough to get a different browser is kidding themselves. Maybe they're out for bitter revenge in the same way as a small child who locks himself in his room, and them throws his own toys out the window. I like that analogy. An interesting point about the irony in all of this: When IE4 came out, an awful lot of people pulled the same behaviour towards the aging (and unmaintained) Netscape 4.8 browser. That kind of bandwagon jumping is what‘s left us here in this situation now. Naturally, my opinion remains that Firefox is a better browser than IE in terms of features, security and stability. They also do a much better job at promptly patching their software than Microsoft do. However, I can’t see myself ever forcing people to switch by blocking them out. Especially not on something as ultimately insignificant as my personal Blog ;) The fundamental problem with all pieces of ‘community software’ (of which Firefox is not, but which the bad seeds of the Firefox community think it is) is there there are evangelists, and there are nut cases.

It‘s a crying shame, because as you say, they do Firefox a grand dis-service with their blunt hypocrisy. The point of W3C standards is to make the web accessible to all. While IE is something of a frustrating obstacle toward Web Utopia for designers/developers, the standards advocated should allow for pages to display perfectly adequetly in IE. We can’t do much about IE‘s actual, bonefide bugs (and there are plenty), but the pretence that IE is the only piece of software to ever be bug riddled is obviously wrong.

It’s a sad state of affairs when people become so self-important that they start deliberately breaking pages in IE. Letting them ‘degrade’ (e.g., where an effect isn‘t supported in IE and so just doesn’t show up, but the content remains) is how the standard is supposed to work, by design and will allow the web to keep on growing smoothly, without the stop-start upgrade style that you might associate with desktop software or games.

Those that block out IE, or deliberately leave it ‘broken’ are a dangerously vocal minority as far as Firefox goes. Although the development is fairly closed, the promotion is reliant on the community and it could be reaped or wrecked by them (or “us”). Whether Mozilla.org could every stand up and tell those anti-social types that they were unwanted is debatable, but anyone who believes that someone will want to view their personal website enough to get a different browser is kidding themselves. Maybe they’re out for bitter revenge in the same way as a small child who locks himself in his room, and them throws his own toys out the window. I like that analogy.

An interesting point about the irony in all of this:

When IE4 came out, an awful lot of people pulled the same behaviour towards the aging (and unmaintained) Netscape 4.8 browser. That kind of bandwagon jumping is what‘s left us here in this situation now.

Naturally, my opinion remains that Firefox is a better browser than IE in terms of features, security and stability. They also do a much better job at promptly patching their software than Microsoft do. However, I can’t see myself ever forcing people to switch by blocking them out. Especially not on something as ultimately insignificant as my personal Blog ;)

]]> By: Meri http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2004/ie-vs-firefox-arguments/#comment-3 Meri Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:55:32 +0000 http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2004/ie-vs-firefox-arguments/#comment-3 Not sure if they will convince you, but my reasons were nothing to do with hatred of IE. I switched because: 1) I have NADD -- multiple tabs mean I can open _every interesting link_ in the background (in tabs -- Ctrl-Click) and then get to them later 2) IE really does have some pretty major security issues, largely because it enjoys such massive market share. I'd rather be using a small moving target than a large static insecure heap. Have a go. Try it. I think you might even find that a lot of the people whose blogs are breaking in IE are actually optimised for Safari and Firefox-on-the-Mac. At SXSW all we saw was a sea of white laptops. Not sure if they will convince you, but my reasons were nothing to do with hatred of IE. I switched because:
1) I have NADD — multiple tabs mean I can open _every interesting link_ in the background (in tabs — Ctrl-Click) and then get to them later
2) IE really does have some pretty major security issues, largely because it enjoys such massive market share. I’d rather be using a small moving target than a large static insecure heap.

Have a go. Try it. I think you might even find that a lot of the people whose blogs are breaking in IE are actually optimised for Safari and Firefox-on-the-Mac. At SXSW all we saw was a sea of white laptops.

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