Comments on: Macs http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2005/macs/ Thu, 15 Jul 2010 01:39:10 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Steven Marshall http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2005/macs/comment-page-1/#comment-40 Steven Marshall Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:25:38 +0000 http://joanslow.com/?p=60#comment-40 As I'm sure you've heard, Jo, I recently spent A Ridiculous Amount on my shiny new PowerMac. That said, this time 3 years ago, I hated Macs with a passion you could only dream of. I thought the dock was a pain, I thought the menu bar was a really naff idea, and I thought that Macs in general were a pretty facade over a pile of steaming poo. Then I grew to like the minimalist styling of the window chrome, and made my Windows system look like a Mac (without dock or start menu up top). Then I thought I'd try the dock out (along with up-top start menu), and ended up not being able to work without it. It was around this time that I made a skin for Windows Media Player 9 to make it look like iTunes (but not behave like it - I, like you, didn't like how it managed my music). This was at a time before iTunes for Windows. Then iTunes came out, and I was nonplussed at first. Gradually, though, the interface started making sense. Then I got an iPod. Now, my journey to the Light Side of the Force (or Dark Side, depending on your perspective) is complete. I used to think that the single-button mice were silly. I end up using my in-the-box bluetooth Apple mouse about half the time, my trackball the rest. It's so rare that I need to [Ctrl-Click]/[Right-Click] that it doesn't botherme that much. In fact, it only really tends to be when I'm reading long web documents or doing "proper work" that I'm bothered by using a single button mouse, and even then it's far less than I'd imagine. Also, whilst the things that Ben goes "ooh" at aren't <em>really</em> what makes it unique - they're the things that Ben's seen that are pretty. Having used my Mac for a while, I just find myself wanting to use it for the fact that it's simpler and more usable for day to day use than any Windows setup I've ever used. I can't quite put it into words, I'm afraid, but I'll say this - if you take a day or two to actually play with a Mac for what you want to use it for, rather than letting Ben take over and dribble all over the keyboard, you may well start to like it. Oh, and there's always <a href="http://www.mac.org/audio-video/macamp/" rel="nofollow">MacAmp</a>... As I’m sure you’ve heard, Jo, I recently spent A Ridiculous Amount on my shiny new PowerMac. That said, this time 3 years ago, I hated Macs with a passion you could only dream of. I thought the dock was a pain, I thought the menu bar was a really naff idea, and I thought that Macs in general were a pretty facade over a pile of steaming poo.

Then I grew to like the minimalist styling of the window chrome, and made my Windows system look like a Mac (without dock or start menu up top). Then I thought I’d try the dock out (along with up-top start menu), and ended up not being able to work without it.

It was around this time that I made a skin for Windows Media Player 9 to make it look like iTunes (but not behave like it – I, like you, didn’t like how it managed my music). This was at a time before iTunes for Windows.

Then iTunes came out, and I was nonplussed at first. Gradually, though, the interface started making sense.

Then I got an iPod.

Now, my journey to the Light Side of the Force (or Dark Side, depending on your perspective) is complete.

I used to think that the single-button mice were silly. I end up using my in-the-box bluetooth Apple mouse about half the time, my trackball the rest. It’s so rare that I need to [Ctrl-Click]/[Right-Click] that it doesn’t botherme that much. In fact, it only really tends to be when I’m reading long web documents or doing “proper work” that I’m bothered by using a single button mouse, and even then it’s far less than I’d imagine.

Also, whilst the things that Ben goes “ooh” at aren’t really what makes it unique – they’re the things that Ben’s seen that are pretty. Having used my Mac for a while, I just find myself wanting to use it for the fact that it’s simpler and more usable for day to day use than any Windows setup I’ve ever used. I can’t quite put it into words, I’m afraid, but I’ll say this – if you take a day or two to actually play with a Mac for what you want to use it for, rather than letting Ben take over and dribble all over the keyboard, you may well start to like it.

Oh, and there’s always MacAmp…

]]> By: Meri http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2005/macs/comment-page-1/#comment-38 Meri Sun, 12 Jun 2005 21:42:38 +0000 http://joanslow.com/?p=60#comment-38 Wasn't meant to be personal, just my idiom. I am a geek speaking and so figured you'd get the paradigm in question ;-) My previous analysis of the operating systems was all very evidently in relation to their usefulness for hardcore computing -- that's evidently not your thing. Wasn't meant to be a judgement of you as a person at all. After all, at the end of the day I don't know you, except by reputation. Wasn’t meant to be personal, just my idiom. I am a geek speaking and so figured you’d get the paradigm in question ;-) My previous analysis of the operating systems was all very evidently in relation to their usefulness for hardcore computing — that’s evidently not your thing. Wasn’t meant to be a judgement of you as a person at all. After all, at the end of the day I don’t know you, except by reputation.

]]> By: Jo http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2005/macs/comment-page-1/#comment-37 Jo Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:29:04 +0000 http://joanslow.com/?p=60#comment-37 Meri: I found the last paragraph of your comment quite harsh and upsetting. I understand that you have different opinions of operating systems than me, and there's no problem with that. But your final comments seem personal. I have no problem with people liking Macs; I just don't like them myself. Saying that something "crap" is enough for me, and that something "brilliant" would be a waste makes implications about me, which I don't feel are fair. I'm sorry that you consider me to be playing - I'm doing my best at something I find quite difficult. Meri:
I found the last paragraph of your comment quite harsh and upsetting. I understand that you have different opinions of operating systems than me, and there’s no problem with that. But your final comments seem personal.
I have no problem with people liking Macs; I just don’t like them myself. Saying that something “crap” is enough for me, and that something “brilliant” would be a waste makes implications about me, which I don’t feel are fair.
I’m sorry that you consider me to be playing – I’m doing my best at something I find quite difficult.

]]> By: Meri http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2005/macs/comment-page-1/#comment-35 Meri Sun, 12 Jun 2005 01:11:44 +0000 http://joanslow.com/?p=60#comment-35 I think you made the real salient point yourself -- you're not a hardcore computer user. The simple fact of the matter is that Macs are brilliant, for hardcore users. They combine the shiny interface that is so desirable for learnability with the power of a *nix-like system. So you can exploit the full potential of the machine -- it is easy to learn new things and once you have learnt them, it is VERY fast to do things. The comparison with other systems is obvious -- Windows is the telly-tubby version of a computer. Doing things is clumsy and repetitive, but relatively consistent and so easy to work out how to do something new. Linux is hardcore -- you have to RTFM a lot just to do easy things, but once you are a power user by god you have power! A Mac would be wasted on you. That doesn't mean that they're not any good -- just that the crapness that is the average Windows machine is enough for you. If people liking them bothers you so much, then stop playing with the geeks! I think you made the real salient point yourself — you’re not a hardcore computer user. The simple fact of the matter is that Macs are brilliant, for hardcore users. They combine the shiny interface that is so desirable for learnability with the power of a *nix-like system. So you can exploit the full potential of the machine — it is easy to learn new things and once you have learnt them, it is VERY fast to do things.

The comparison with other systems is obvious — Windows is the telly-tubby version of a computer. Doing things is clumsy and repetitive, but relatively consistent and so easy to work out how to do something new. Linux is hardcore — you have to RTFM a lot just to do easy things, but once you are a power user by god you have power!

A Mac would be wasted on you. That doesn’t mean that they’re not any good — just that the crapness that is the average Windows machine is enough for you. If people liking them bothers you so much, then stop playing with the geeks!

]]> By: Fatty http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2005/macs/comment-page-1/#comment-34 Fatty Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:58:52 +0000 http://joanslow.com/?p=60#comment-34 <blockquote>we visited the Apple store on Regents Street, so that he could go and fondle the laptops he is considering buying.</blockquote> Such a wonderful image… :-D

we visited the Apple store on Regents Street, so that he could go and fondle the laptops he is considering buying.

Such a wonderful image… :-D

]]> By: k-li http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2005/macs/comment-page-1/#comment-33 k-li Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:54:46 +0000 http://joanslow.com/?p=60#comment-33 I agree with you Jo. Although I don't know much about computers, and have never actually used a Mac, I don't like the way that they look. Seeing lecturers using them in our lectures it just looks stupid - okay so some of the effects look cool but are they really needed? I think not; they would just get annoying and you could easily click something by accident if it appears when you accidentally hover over the part of the screen which it is present on. I also dont really like the way the Mac laptops look - they are too white! And the mice look stupid too. Bleurghhh. I agree with you Jo. Although I don’t know much about computers, and have never actually used a Mac, I don’t like the way that they look.
Seeing lecturers using them in our lectures it just looks stupid – okay so some of the effects look cool but are they really needed? I think not; they would just get annoying and you could easily click something by accident if it appears when you accidentally hover over the part of the screen which it is present on.
I also dont really like the way the Mac laptops look – they are too white! And the mice look stupid too.
Bleurghhh.

]]> By: Ben http://www.joanslow.com/posts/2005/macs/comment-page-1/#comment-32 Ben Tue, 31 May 2005 11:39:20 +0000 http://joanslow.com/?p=60#comment-32 There's some detailed reply to things like "Start Bar At The Top" which probably needs covering in a blog post of my own, but it'll have to wait for me to finish my BCS Log Book before I can justify the time to do screen shots :) There is a good reason for it besides Macism, I promise! One buttoned mice - I can tolerate it, just. On a laptop with no external mouse I can see it being bearable simply because both hands are in close vicinity to the keyboard at all times (thus hitting Ctrl + Click is not a big deal). On a desktop machine though I think it's really rather silly, especially the absence of the scrollwheel. The fact that the PowerBooks now have the super-great two-finger-salute trackpad scrolling (I don't think you were hugely amused, but I promise it was good!), implies that Apple are going to admit defeat. Rumour has been rife of a proper Apple 2-button + Scroll wheel mouse for a while. It might even get announced next week. I wouldn't necessarily judge the mouse comfort, mind. The mouse you used at work - the stone-age iMac, funny circular one - has long been discontinued for something altogether more oval. It's not ergonomic to the hand as such, but does at least work for left and right handed types equally. As I understand it the new ones are rather better. The Dock: On Windows "Yz'Dock" (which is what I use) is really nothing more than a fancy QuickLaunch bar. It happens to look like the Mac dock but doesn't actually do the same thing. The Mac Dock performs the Quick Launch function, providing shortcuts to your most used applications, but also performs the task bar function. When you minimise a program it will appear in the right-hand-side of the dock. I have no doubt that you'll still hate it with a passion, but you've not actually used the Mac Dock in the way it was really designed (yet). And no, they're not perfect (nor are Apple). Right now, I think the experience of using one is better than using Windows, but I'm no raving advocate and if Longhorn proves good, Apple will lose me. No point in blind loyalty ;) There’s some detailed reply to things like “Start Bar At The Top” which probably needs covering in a blog post of my own, but it’ll have to wait for me to finish my BCS Log Book before I can justify the time to do screen shots :) There is a good reason for it besides Macism, I promise!

One buttoned mice – I can tolerate it, just. On a laptop with no external mouse I can see it being bearable simply because both hands are in close vicinity to the keyboard at all times (thus hitting Ctrl + Click is not a big deal). On a desktop machine though I think it’s really rather silly, especially the absence of the scrollwheel. The fact that the PowerBooks now have the super-great two-finger-salute trackpad scrolling (I don’t think you were hugely amused, but I promise it was good!), implies that Apple are going to admit defeat. Rumour has been rife of a proper Apple 2-button + Scroll wheel mouse for a while. It might even get announced next week.

I wouldn’t necessarily judge the mouse comfort, mind. The mouse you used at work – the stone-age iMac, funny circular one – has long been discontinued for something altogether more oval. It’s not ergonomic to the hand as such, but does at least work for left and right handed types equally. As I understand it the new ones are rather better.

The Dock: On Windows “Yz’Dock” (which is what I use) is really nothing more than a fancy QuickLaunch bar. It happens to look like the Mac dock but doesn’t actually do the same thing.
The Mac Dock performs the Quick Launch function, providing shortcuts to your most used applications, but also performs the task bar function. When you minimise a program it will appear in the right-hand-side of the dock. I have no doubt that you’ll still hate it with a passion, but you’ve not actually used the Mac Dock in the way it was really designed (yet).

And no, they’re not perfect (nor are Apple). Right now, I think the experience of using one is better than using Windows, but I’m no raving advocate and if Longhorn proves good, Apple will lose me. No point in blind loyalty ;)

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